EdFix Episode 15: Ed Tech, Online Learning and the Digital Access Divide

In today’s world of instructional design, there are more tools available than ever before. Educational technology is incorporated across all learning environments, from K-12 and higher education to corporate, government, and military training. So how can teachers design quality instruction using technology to meet a variety of learners’ needs? Drs. Michael Corry and Natalie Milman discuss new information delivery methods, artificial intelligence tools, and whether the use of technology in schools has actually lessened the “digital access divide.”

 

---

 

TRANSCRIPT

NATALIE MILMAN:
How can we take all this information? How can we take these tools and design really engaging learning experiences that are lasting and that stick?

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Welcome to EdFix. I'm Michael Feuer. I am your host for our podcast on the insights of the practice and promise of education. And I'm delighted today that two of my distinguished colleagues from the Graduate School of Education and Human Development have stopped by Studio T to share with us some of their wit and wisdom and the reflections on a very important topic in the world of education, policy, practice and research, and it's all about technology. Delighted to introduce Dr. Mike Corry and Dr. Natalie Milman. They're both professors in our educational technology leadership program here in the grad school.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Mike's main interests include everything from distance learning design to the theory and practice and policy implications of distance learning, development of faculty resources, the integration of technology into elementary and secondary and postsecondary settings, instructional design, human computer interaction, and I know that in his spare time he's an avid Nat's fan.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Natalie Milman's research focuses on the design of instruction and models for effective leadership. In particular, with respect to integration of technology at all levels of the academic enterprise. She does work related to the student support needs for online learning, issues of diversity inclusion, and what we refer to as digital equity, and we're going to want to come back to that phrase and dig in a little bit more on that. Anyway, thank you both for coming to EdFix. pleasure to see you as it always is. Let me start with Mike. So give us a little bit of a rundown on what your current research is about, and what you think are the hottest issues in educational technology and digital learning.

MICHAEL CORRY:
Thank you Michael. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Most recently, I've really been interested in a couple of areas. One is digital literacy in higher education and also in K-12. The second area I'm very interested in, and I've been doing research is in our K12 online learning experience. We have a George Washington University online high school, and we've been looking at different research questions involving that high school and it's teachers and it's students and it's the parents who are involved with that. It's a great opportunity to really understand a new and kind of growing area for online learning. And so, those are probably my most interesting areas I'm researching at the moment.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
With the advent of high-speed computing and other forms of technology, we've got this thing called digital literacy. Unpack that for us. Tell us what digital literacy really means.

MICHAEL CORRY:
Well, literacy in general and data literacy specifically, involves how we use data. And the world is full of data. As consumers, we are exposed to data, as teachers we're exposed to data, as researchers we're exposed to data. And the real trick is understanding that data, because it's growing in size and complexity. And the real trick is understanding not only what data is out there, but how we can use that to meet our goals, and how does it possibly change our goals?

MICHAEL CORRY:
For example, if you are a K-12 teacher, there's a lot of data that comes your way now through standardized testing and through other means. And do our teachers really understand what they can use with that? In higher education, we'll talk about there's a lot more use of learning management systems to deliver courses, and there's a lot of data on the back end of that; lots and lots of data. And we're just now beginning to crack and understand what that means and what we can do as far as the design of courses as far as the delivery of courses, as far as what our students' needs are and how we're meeting them.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
So I'm going to turn first to Natalie, and ask a little bit about your work on the design of instructional models using digital and other kinds of a high tech.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So my interest in how to best design instruction, really is at the core of my research and my teaching. And it is very reciprocal in the sense that many of my courses do involve helping students understand various theories about how to design instruction. So while technologies might be incorporated into the design of instruction, and the teaching, and the any activities that are involved including formative and summative evaluation, really at the core is how to best design instruction. And one of the areas that I have been very interested in as well, is how to differentiate instruction to meet diverse learner needs, no matter who the learners are, whether it's small children or adults in an online learning class.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So, I think one thing that's unique about our field, is sometimes people equate educational technology and instructional technology as only being about teaching with technology. And really the heart and essence of it, is how to best design instruction. A pencil can be a technology, language is a technology. How can we best design instruction using technology of course today is very important. Really no matter where one is working, there is some kind of online education or blended learning experience, typically happening for people no matter, whether they're in K-12 education, higher education, corporate NGOs, government, you name it, education technology is everywhere.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
You may want to just mention the online high school again, because that for me is an example of the use of technology to improve learning for a particular population of students.

MICHAEL CORRY:
Sure. If you really look at the instructional design process, which is at the core of our field. If you look at that, the real goal is to help learners be successful through quality materials, through quality instruction, and through tying the goals to the objectives and the outcomes to the objectives, so that when a student finishes a course, whether it's a K through 12 course, whether it's a higher education course, whether that's a training course, that they have learned, something that sticks with them and something that they set out to learn. And that it was done in a highly effective and efficient manner. And those things, technology becomes tools in the toolbox so to speak.

MICHAEL CORRY:
But what happens is, as you lay out these courses and you lay out the path to success, that then you decide which tools make sense. In today's world, the beautiful part about today's world, is we have more tools than we've ever had before. And it makes for very exciting opportunities to learn and through different media, but it also makes an instructional designers job a little bit harder, because how do you decide what is the best tool to use from a technology standpoint?

MICHAEL CORRY:
To touch on the online high school, I think this is a great application of online learning. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, thinking about K through 12 or high school students, going to school online was a bit of a stretch; 20 years ago definitely. It was primarily focused on higher education, but now we know that it can be successful. We've got a very successful online high school that focuses on the use of online technologies and other technologies to deliver high quality instruction. It's very interesting high touch. And many times when you talk about online learning, people envision these huge classes with thousands of students. But we're finding in our online school that the high touch, lower student to teacher ratio is fantastic and has really been embraced.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
What are examples within this world of technology of what you refer to as tools?

NATALIE MILMAN:
So one example of an artificial intelligence tool, which is one area that I am becoming very interested in and I'm hoping to do some research in as well, is the use of intelligent cognitive assistance. So for example, you may be familiar with flipped learning. Flipped learning is a strategy where an instructor flips the class, where in the face to face portion, and there are different iterations and definitions, but this is just one. Where the instructor flips the class, and in class, the students have deeper discussions and activities. But at home, they have to have already viewed the lecture, the piece where the instructor's giving the information.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So, in talking with various other faculty across campus as well as my own son, who critiques the flipped learning strategy, we've been thinking, "Wouldn't it be great if we had some intelligent cognitive assistant guiding students wherever they are, if they're home, in the dorm room, wherever they are, viewing that flipped learning portion and guiding them with questions and answers to help guide them with instruction?"

NATALIE MILMAN:
Because one of the critiques that I have had about flipped learning is not only there can be challenges in the quality of the actual, say lecture that they watch, but also the conditions in which they're watching. And really, one of the major shortcomings is that students can't ask their teacher questions, because it's just, say a video. Now the teacher might embed questions within that video that they have to answer.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So the technology that might be used for that, it's called screencasting tools. Basically, you could just even use a multimedia tool like PowerPoint or Open Offices, PowerPoint version and create a multimedia presentation with questions, and then students just watch it like they would watch a YouTube video, for example. So there's challenges with many different types of tools, but with the idea of the intelligent cognitive assistance, it's that the students are interacting more, but it's more personalized.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
To what extent does the online high school take advantage of this business of students accessing information and then being able to interact with an instructional leader, a teacher as opposed to whatever else might be going on?

MICHAEL CORRY:
The beautiful part about what Natalie just described with the flipped classroom, is that this is a great example of how in our field you're employing not only instructional design technologies, because you have to design this outside of the classroom experience, but then you're employing both hardware and software technologies, because you're going to use these technologies. Much as the same kind of technologies we're using to record this podcast today. But you'd use it with video or other means, and it could be video, it could be audio, it could be many different delivery methods.

MICHAEL CORRY:
But the great thing about it is, the faculty become moved from this sage on the stage to the guide on the side, and the students get this opportunities to learn at their own pace and they have a chance to review and go back over these types of things. In online high schools and any online learning environment, you're going to employ many different ways of delivering the instruction.

MICHAEL CORRY:
So it could be through some more things that have been described with videos where you can start and stop and so forth. But you can also employ synchronous learning opportunities, where the students and the teacher are separated by space, but they're in the same time and we'll use video conferencing for that and other means. I think the key here, is for the really good teachers and really good instructional designers to understand again, what tools they have available to them and when it's appropriate to apply them. And it'll vary based on content of the class, it could vary based on the students, vary based on the number of students, it will vary based on many different things.

MICHAEL CORRY:
So it's quite an art in many ways. I remember many years ago hearing two of the leaders in our field discuss whether educational technology was an art or a science. It was fascinating. And I think it's a little bit of both, to be honest with you. But this is one reason why I believe our field is crucial, not only for K-12, but higher education and training. This cuts across the board. It's very broad and it's very much key as we move forward with new technologies and new ways of learning. And it's not for everyone, I'll be the first to tell you. Online learning for example, or the flipped classroom is not going to work in every circumstance. It's not right for every learner. But there are many, many cases where it is and it brings just wonderful results.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So what has changed? And one of the main thing ... Well, it's really two things that have changed. It's the amount of information that we have available, and then the tools that we have to deliver that. Today, we can witness history being livestreamed via Twitter as it's happening. That was impossible when I was a child. Today, children can see history happening. So I think the internet and then the tools that are used to disseminate information have really impacted the number and amount of resources that teachers have available.

NATALIE MILMAN:
So really they're educational designers. They need to know what are the best tools and resources that can be used for the best learning experiences for their particular learners. No matter if it's a preschool teacher, or a university professor, or someone training someone in the military, or training in a hotel or a restaurant, whatever it is, there's so many tools available, so much information available. How can we take all this information? How can we take these tools and design really engaging learning experiences that are lasting and that stick, that are deep learning experiences? And that one can apply in diverse situations.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
So the big advantage, if I might push this one step further of the advent of computing technology, is that now the students don't necessarily have to have the 24 volume encyclopedia Britannica at home or access to the public library. They go online and they look it up.

NATALIE MILMAN:
One big difference also is they already have it. If you're just wondering, "What's the weather going to be like?" Well you just say, hey, whatever your a smart speaker, intelligent device is, and ask and you get that information. And I think, looping back to your question about the idea of technology is a tool, one thing I do want to emphasize is in my research, I've seen kindergartners don't think about the tool. They just use it naturally, and they make choices based on whatever they want to do. Sometimes they go for a crayon and sometimes they use let's say an app on their mobile device, but they fluidly use these different tools. And it's, I think, sometimes the adults that get a little stuck in thinking about what's the return on investment of using this tool? And what's the impact on education? And is it going to improve test scores? And I think we need to think more about, "Well how can we really design engaging learning experiences?"

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
When you're involved with the people who are doing the online instruction through our high school, let's say the GWU online high school, do you sense that those instructors are trying to get their students to access a broader and more diverse set of sources for their information?

MICHAEL CORRY:
Well, the beautiful part about where we are with technology, is that there are multiple sources out there. And it's not only in how we're put out the news and who's doing it, but it's in things like online textbooks. There's a big push across the world for free or nearly free course materials, meaning textbooks that are out there. It's the quality, some quality is really good, some is not so good. We're trying very hard to watch costs, for example, of our higher education students. And one of the ways we see that possibly we can do that is by lowering the cost of textbooks. This is just an example of the diversity that's available out there.

MICHAEL CORRY:
And what it really comes down to in my mind, is choosing, and I'm an instructional designer by trade, so you've got this answer will be very instructional design like. You set up what your goal is, you identify what the outcomes are, and you work between the two and you say, "Hey look, this is the text or this is the information, or this is the data that is best going to help these students achieve their goals. And as long as you can do that, I think you can avoid the biases that are out there and ultimately the students will find success, and that's what it's really all about.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
One of the criticisms of online learning, is that we are reducing the opportunities for young people to develop the kind of social and emotional and team building and collective working together kinds of skills, that some people argue are still very important even in our global 21st century, high tech economy. How much of that is a myth?

MICHAEL CORRY:
I think you need to structure your life in a way that you can get exposure to as many different things. So for example, if you're a high school student taking courses online, we do a lot within our online high school to provide clubs and to provide opportunities for them to have social experiences online. They do get together from time to time if they live geographically close to each other. And then we have other opportunities for them to get together and travel.

MICHAEL CORRY:
But beyond that, if I had a student, if I had a child who was taking an online course or all my courses online, I would make sure you structured other things in their life to help them develop those social and emotional skills. So I'd have them involved with sports, or with drama, or with a church group, or with something that gave them those opportunities to interact with others and to develop those skills, because those are key skills to any child's development.

MICHAEL CORRY:
In higher education, when we're working with our master's degree students for example, who are online, most of them are working full time, and most of them have those experiences, those social and emotional opportunities throughout the day. And the online is something that they take on the side, something they do on the weekends or at nights or at lunch hour or whenever. So I don't worry about them so much. But it's key, I'm glad you asked the question, because I think it's a key element to remember to be cognizant of, and particularly with our younger learners, to help structure in a way that they have those experiences.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Tell us a little bit about where we are in understanding and coping with what we used to call the digital divide.

NATALIE MILMAN:
Well, my sense is that there still is a digital divide. Some people like to call it a digital access divide. Because if you look at the statistics that are out there about the hardware and software that people have, most people have access. However, I've talked with one of our rural education experts in our own school. We've been talking about how even in some rural situations, there are students who do not have access, even if they can afford it. There are students who, I think of my own family, we have at least three devices per person. While the majority might have access, not everyone has the same level of access and ability to work and learn with technology. So that to me is concerning.

NATALIE MILMAN:
Another example would be, I was on a dissertation committee of a doctoral student in higher education administration, and in that study the student found that students working in groups were being shut out of the group work, because they didn't have the same phones as the majority of the other group members. So they weren't choosing a common app for them to communicate and meet. So they said, "Oh, well we sent out all the information, you just didn't show up." And the student who had a different phone said, "No, I just never got the invitation.

NATALIE MILMAN:
And it's things like that where it's harder or perceived to be harder to work with some people, because you don't have some of the same types of tools with which to work. So it is concerning. And I also think about children who might be in schools where they don't have much technology or a teacher who's not as comfortable teaching with technology and having students work with it and learn with it. And year after year after year, the kinds of skills that Mike was talking about, but also just basic technology skills. If they're not getting that exposure and learning how to use it for more meaningful learning experiences beyond sending pictures to your friends, we're going to be missing out on providing students more deep learning experiences and getting at that issue of equity.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
I want to just ask you both to say something about what got you into this line of work. Natalie?

NATALIE MILMAN:
I took a graduate level course when I was working on my master's and it was in a technology class, but I watched it on television and I recorded it. And that's where I really began to learn about the power and promise of technology. And then I became a technology lab specialist teacher and I realized, this is what I want to do. I want to help other people learn about the power and the promise of technology.

NATALIE MILMAN:
And I also saw it as just a real need for equity. I think of one of my students who was more troublesome, behavior wise, for a lot of teachers. And one time he was not allowed to come to the computer lab to learn in my class. And I thought, "If there's any kid that needs to come to this class, it's him. Because he's missing out on this wonderful opportunity to learn how to use a tool that can really help him. So that's really why I'm here, I want to help others learn about the promise and potential of technology, and how it can make a difference in people's lives.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Mike, what got you to this point?

MICHAEL CORRY:
I actually got my bachelor's degree in business management and finance and worked for one of the largest IT consulting firms in the world, and my love of IT was, and technology in general, was quite evident. As one of my experiences working, I got a chance to do some corporate training. And you could say the light bulb went off. I realized what my calling was and that I really enjoyed teaching and helping people learn, and technology was the key to all this.

MICHAEL CORRY:
So I left the consulting world and went back and got my master's degree in education, and got actually a teaching certification in secondary education. Taught a little bit in high school and then got my master's degree and my PhD, and as they say, the rest of the story is written out. But I just love helping people, and I see how technology can play such a key role in that process and seeing people achieve their personal, professional goals brings me great happiness.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
I have to say, one of the most refreshing things for me about this conversation is the reminder that we actually have a lot to be hopeful about. There's a lot of rhetoric and a lot of headlines out there about the doomsday scenarios of American education, and that we're underperforming here, there and elsewhere. And what I think I'm picking up on here, is that against the myth of a school system that is still stuck in kind of 19th century traditions, we have an incredible amount of really interesting innovation and experimentation taking place. So that gives me a great hope. So I want to thank you both for an enlightening conversation and I have a feeling that the future of educational and instructional technology is a big one and a complicated one. So I want to thank you and encourage you to keep doing great research.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Thank you again to Mike Corry and Natalie Milman for joining me today. If you enjoyed this episode, then you will want to subscribe to the EdFix podcast, which you can do on iTunes, or Spotify, or iHeartRadio, or Player FM, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
For more information, we also have a website, edfixpodcast.com. Natalie, thank you again.

NATALIE MILMAN:
Thank you very much.

MICHAEL J. FEUER:
Mike, thank you so much.

MICHAEL CORRY:
It was a pleasure.

---